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Dialogue Manager on a Standalone Linux Server?
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posted
Since IBI support for VM is ending in the future, (if you're on VM you need to be talking to them) we're looking to move to a different environment. All my WebFOCUS focexecs contain tons of Dialogue Manager code. We're being told Modify and DM won't work on LINUX server. Is this true?

Thanks,

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sakeenan,


Sue

 
Posts: 18 | Registered: October 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Virtuoso
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Sue
I've never used Linux, but I'd be very surprised IB would support LINUX without 2 of the most major and essential components.

Whilst you may have to change some of the DM to use the LINUX naming conventions etc. it should work.

Call tech support for full clarification.


Alan.
WF 7.705/8.007
 
Posts: 1451 | Location: Portugal | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Alan for the response. It makes sense to me that Modify would not work in a server environment, but not Dialogue Manager, especially since it's coded throughout the WebFOCUS manual on creating reports. I can possibly rewrite the programs using Maintain and just update a few records at a time, since the only reason I was using Modify in the first place was WebMaintain couldn't handle the number of records being updated at once. (Hi Mark Smiler), but not using DM is a show stopper.

Thanks,


Sue

 
Posts: 18 | Registered: October 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Virtuoso
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I would fully expect non-screen based modifies to be supported.

How many records were you trying to put through a maintain? I regularly run 60,000 through on a small windows server.

Shame about VM, I used to like it.


Alan.
WF 7.705/8.007
 
Posts: 1451 | Location: Portugal | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My programs are non-screen based modifies called from WebFOCUS Maintain or from an HTML form.

I was trying to update approx 1200 records in a hub/sub environment and the program would abend occasionally, so the code was rewritten using Modify and has been running fine for three years. The hub then was WinNT and now it's LINUX on VM.

I must say I've grown to like VM. Smiler It took me a while to get used to it, but it sure is nice not to have to deal with JCL anymore.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sakeenan,


Sue

 
Posts: 18 | Registered: October 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Virtuoso
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Well I would follow the old adage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Good luck with your changeover anyway.


Alan.
WF 7.705/8.007
 
Posts: 1451 | Location: Portugal | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, but it won't be me dealing with it, since I'm retiring at the end of the year, if not sooner. Smiler


Sue

 
Posts: 18 | Registered: October 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Virtuoso
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We run almost all of our stuff on Linux (both RedHat on HP and Suse on Z/OS) with no problem and it includes some Modify and is strewn from here to eternity with Dialogue Manager. Shouldn't be an issue.
Are you issuing O/S commands from Dialogue Manager? There may be some issue with that, but that's not something we've done.


Regards,

Darin



In FOCUS since 1991
WF Server: 7.7.04 on Linux and Z/OS, ReportCaster, Self-Service, MRE, Java, Flex
Data: DB2/UDB, Adabas, SQL Server Output: HTML,PDF,EXL2K/07, PS, AHTML, Flex
WF Client: 77 on Linux w/Tomcat
 
Posts: 2298 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah | Registered: February 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<lfrerker>
posted
We're using DM throughout our applications and we're running WF 7.1.3 on Linux RedHat. We only have one simple Modify program running behind the scenes, and it works fine. We don't use Maintain.
 
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Master
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Like Darin Lee all of our WebFOCUS runs in Suse Linux on Z/OS. I have hundreds of programs that contain batch MODIFY that run with no problem. The part of MODIFY that is not supported is CRTFORM. All other syntax seems to work just fine.


In FOCUS since 1985. Prod WF 8.0.08 (z90/Suse Linux) DB (Oracle 11g), Self Serv, Report Caster, WebServer Intel/Linux.
 
Posts: 950 | Location: Oklahoma City | Registered: October 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Virtuoso
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Is your WebFOCUS environment running in the LINUX virtual machine on a IBM VM operating system? If so, and not on VM itself, may be a mute point.


Leah
 
Posts: 1317 | Location: Council Bluffs, IA | Registered: May 24, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have worked with WebFOCUS on Linux. The issue is not whether MODIFY or Dialogue Manager work in this environment. The WebFOCUS server supports MODIFY and Dialogue Manager, regardless of the platform. It does NOT support CRTFORM or -CRTFORM. Those are components of FOCUS, not WebFOCUS.

Regarding OS commands, when I worked on migrating applications to Linux last year, prefacing the commands with UNIX worked, prefacing them with LINUX did not work. This may have changed since then. But, I would be careful regarding these.
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: February 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for all the responses.

We're in a hub/sub environment running WebFOCUS on a LINUX box which is sitting on VM and we're also running core FOCUS on VM. All the data resides on VM on sink machines. WebFOCUS interacts with VM to get the data. Since IBI is removing support for VM ( Those in the meeting were told Sept, 2009 for WebFOCUS and 3 years for core FOCUS) our group has decided to move everything to a standalone server. Z/OS is out of the question, so a mainframe will no longer be used and all programs and data will reside on a server. As to FOCUS dbs it will depend on the answers we receive about sink machines on a server.

I wasn't in the meeting so I don't know why IBI said Modify and Dialogue Manager would not be available. I think the suggestion was to use the WebFOCUS painter for creating the programs. I just wish my programs were that simple. Smiler Not having Modify is not a big deal, but if Dialogue Manager is not available for whatever reason, then I'm not sure I'd vote to remain with WebFOCUS.

Now we need to find out if DM is available on LINUX, why we wouldn't have it.

Thanks everyone,


Sue

 
Posts: 18 | Registered: October 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Virtuoso
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We use quite large FOCUS datafiles on SINK, windows server, still 4.3.? in production. tests on 7.1 have shown good results, perfromance even seems better, don't quite know why.

The Sink machine has proved reliable since a bug fix 6 years ago, we have had no data corruption since. It is a transactional based system with heavy use of both MODIFY for batch loading and Maintain for users, and performance has never been an issue, even at heavy us times.

Basically we are happy to keep using FOCUS datafiles and sink on the upgrade to 7.


Alan.
WF 7.705/8.007
 
Posts: 1451 | Location: Portugal | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sue,

Yes, VM is a good platform. I helped an IBI client do this switch some time back. Many clients now are moving to zLinux on the mainframe instead of to Linux on a smaller box. IBM is offering significant price incentives to do that.

Dialogue Manager in general is portable from VM to Linux, except for the -VM operating system commands, which need to be converted. If there are any embedded VM commands (e.g., ERASE, SLEEP, XEDIT, PRINT, etc.), you will need change them (you can see www.kencura.com for software to automate this conversion process).

The only thing about MODIFY that is not supported under WebFOCUS is character-based screens. If you are just using MODIFY to load/update databases with FIXFORM or FREEFORM transactions, those are fine. It is the CRTFORM/PROMPTs that need to be changed.

Of course, all of your FILEDEF type commands need to change for the new file system. I can't remember if DYNAM ever worked on VM (it may have only been MVS), but those will not work on Linux.

Good luck with your platform conversion!

Sincerely,

Doug at Kencura
www.kencura.com
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Midwest United States | Registered: February 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sue,

In addition to changing the green-screen and operating system commands, the other thing that needs consideration when migrating to another platform are the FOCUS databases. I have seen people try to just copy them from one platform to another, which typically does not work (unless you are VM and MVS).

Instead, you will want to dump the FOCUS databases on VM into extract files, convert/transfer that data to Linux, create new FOCUS databases there, and load the Linux databases using the extract files.

Sincerely,

Doug at Kencura
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Midwest United States | Registered: February 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for all the info, but we already know the steps in a conversion process, since most of us have 15-20+ years of experience.

My question is why would IBI tell us Modify and Dialogue Manager will not be available on Linux. Several people heard what was said so either they all misunderstood or something is going to change in the near future. I guess the only people who can really answer the question is IBI themselves, since it appears both Modify and DM are available for Linux.

Anyone from IBI care to answer? I know you guys read this forum. Smiler

Thanks,


Sue

 
Posts: 18 | Registered: October 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Virtuoso
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Sue,

We have applications on Linux machines that have both MODIFY and DM. There never was a problem.
Concerning system commands we have been using the ! prefix instead of the name of the OS.
I wouldn't worry (famous last words?).


Daniel
In Focus since 1982
wf 8.202M/Win10/IIS/SSA - WrapApp Front End for WF

 
Posts: 1949 | Location: Tel Aviv, Israel | Registered: March 23, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sue,

The DM engine is what is used to call FOCEXECs outside of interactive FOCUS and process all of the &variables. It also provides a critical scripting functionality for multi-step processing.

The bottom line is that DM can NEVER go away. Without it, you would not be able to pass variables from an HTML page to the WebFOCUS program.

What did go away during the transition from FOCUS to WebFOCUS were the green-screen functions of DM, such as -CRTFORM. IBI enhanced -PROMPT for web HTML processing rather than deprecate it.

Will MODIFY ever go away? Maybe. After all, you can buy MAINTAIN to replace it. Gerry started work on this next generation of database maintenance syntax in 1991, so MAINTAIN has been around for over a dozen years now. So far, Gerry has not forced anybody to stop using MODIFY by removing it from the language.

MODIFY is a powerful transactional processor that is still used all the time by clients and IBI alike. It still adds lots of value to the WebFOCUS product and it would be tough to force everybody (included IBI employees) to stop using MODIFY and switch everything to MAINTAIN. If they did, IBI would probably give all clients a heads-up of at least a year or so to make a change before they sunset the MODIFY feature.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about somebody telling you that DM and MODIFY are going away. They are absolutely wrong on the first item and just speculating on the second. Keep in mind that not all of the people you speak with at IBI will have the 15-20 years of experience you have.
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Midwest United States | Registered: February 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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