We are releasing a new report development tool in 767. It includes some very nice UI innovations to make it easier to use for the initial or casual user. We would like any feedback and to encourage an active discussion between the early adopters. We are already engaged in the next level of enhancements and we value your input as we go forward.

Note: I have updated thread summary to better reflect the comments in the thread.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Brian Suter,

Brian,

Can you specify the licensing requirements?

I think I read that it was also available in Data Servers with a bit of loss of functionality. What are the licensing requirements for a self-service implementation?

There is a version for inside MRE/CUS and a version that works outside MRE/CUS. As for licensing...
"Contact your local Information Builders account manager to learn how this new capability can be licensed and enabled."

Brian,

Allow me to vent some feedback.

Our institution has been a FOCUS customer since 1993. I personally have been administering WebFOCUS since v5.3 - we have gone through most updates and are currently on 7.6.5 in PROD (7.6.6 in TEST).

I am very tired of
1) major new features rolled into minor.minor releases. Please stop rolling new features in a jump from 7.1.2->7.1.3 or 7.6.6->7.6.7. Major features invariably introduce new BUGS. Please save your new features for major releases (or at least minor releases, not minor.minor).

2) new features rolled out for new revenue opportunities requiring new licenses. Active Reports, Power painter, Magnify, now Info Assistant. It really is getting frustrating, and seems almost surreal that you are asking for usability feedback on a feature that we can't use out of the box.

3) bugs that don't get fixed. We have reported many, many bugs in the product line over the years, some introduced by the rush to add new features from 1) and 2) above, where so many new features have unintended consequences in other areas. Some of those bugs eventually get fixed. But many of them get sent to the dead zone called "In Product Division" and never see the defect corrected. The frustration in this is fueled by each new feature released for new revenue channels -- we'd be much more willing to consider new licenses if the attention was equally spent clearing out our "In Product Division" defects that have been languishing for years.

I know that's not the type of feedback you were soliciting, and I'm sorry that I am not just keeping quiet -- but please understand, it's what needs to be conveyed, at least from my institution's perspective.

Dan at UNO

Dan,
i so agree.
it makes upgrading quite difficult.
-s.

I don't have a problem with new features coming out in minor releases.

The issue here is what is the feature, is it related to the core product or is it just an addition.

As for bug fixes, I completely understand, we have a few "In Product Division", but you also have to understand the cost of fixing everything.

Rule of thumb is Big customers or many reports of a bug will get fixed.

I have seen previous versions of InfoAssist, and it was quite good then, can't wait to see whats been improved.

I wholeheartedly agree with Dan - his comments were very well put.

I'd prefer IBI fix a myriad of bugs and problems deemed not important enough to resolve (Subtotal on two lines, anyone?) than pay extra licensing fees for a new feature.

And can this "InfoAssist" deal with Dialogue Manager?

Clarification:

While I personally probably wouldn't use InfoAssist (I'm a die-hard coder) I'm sure it will be very useful for all the "casual" users out there.

Will InfoAssist replace any existing GUI tools or is this a new, additional one?

Will it be difficult to maintain the multiple GUI tools? Will a report created with one GUI be compatible with another GUI? Will they all generate the same underlying code? Will all the GUI tools one day support manipulation with Dialogue Manager?

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, but Dan and Waz have brought up good points, and when will the "Subtotal on two lines" problem be fixed?

I think the push to put out InfoAssist was to get a better look&feel, better than existing RA (which i happen to really like!) ..because Cognos has a cool infoassist thing.
new buyers get impressed by such things. and they think RA is really 90's looking. (ha. fools!).
A client of mine just did a side by side with cognos's version and webfocus won..the look and feel is just as pretty, but focus has dialogue manager and hold files (sic! yes...RA with hold files! yippee) and you don't have to work with those dreaded cubes! and the business views get created by the developer, us, not pushed back to dba's as with cognos so my client was blissed out! so now i'm psyched. Still, i wish they'ld just pushed it out as 7.8 or 8.0...

A large part of the problem with new features for new revenue channels requiring new license costs (other than sliding them into minor.minor version service packs) is THEY TAKE CAPACITY AWAY FROM THE BASE PRODUCT. With the new Power Painter and Active Reports and Info Assist and Magnify, and their inherent additional bug fixes needed, is it any wonder that our institution has so many case reports stuck "In Product Division"?

Additionally, just look at the 7.6.7 Server/Client/Dev Studio fixes -- I count 30 "fixes" with "NFR:" in the description. To me, that means "New Feature Request", and again, these take away from the base product getting refined and "In Product Division" caseload reduced.

Don't get me wrong, I have always been impressed with IBI keeping up with technology -- the whole move from mainframe FOCUS to embrace the web through WebFOCUS is quite impressive. But sooner or later, one needs to refine and stabilize the base product instead of expending resources to constantly add new feature after new feature....

It shouldn't be streched to the point where so much of your QA/Tech Support/Product Division/Sales resources are spent keeping up with the new product features, that you ignore the bread and butter customer base.

And that is happening, at least in our experience. Which is why I am offering this feedback.

Thanks for listening, hope it has some value.

Dan at UNO

quote:

As for bug fixes, I completely understand, we have a few "In Product Division", but you also have to understand the cost of fixing everything.

Rule of thumb is Big customers or many reports of a bug will get fixed.

What about glaring serious bugs like this that get reported?

WebFOCUS Relational Join does not work properly

You will be losing a large number of customers because a feature fundamental to the product is busted, yet nothing gets done.

One of the first reports I did with wf was to list parents without children. Simple you think left_outer join with test if child is missing. But no. This does not work. What a terrible initial impression to give a user!

Also Please don't talk to me about 'Backward Compatibility' as an excuse for not doing anything because when I get a new release and test it seems as though 'Backwards Compatibility' has been the last thing on the developers mind.

Could anyone at IBI explain to me why serious flaws like this do not get fixed?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hammo1j,

quote:

What about glaring serious bugs like this

If its serious, and I agree with you, have you put in a case with IBI ?

If we all have problems with this, then we all need to put in cases, this adds weight to the justification of having it fixed.

Waz

Here is a discussion on the subject initiated by a user new to WebFOCUS when he got the same problem.

https://forums.informationbuilders.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/...521065452#8521065452

Your IBI Case#40462527 internal: 000160430

Product management has informed me that this issue will be looked into for the
7.7 release of the reporting server.

We raise the issue which takes considerable of out time and then have to get past the skeptics to prove the point and then nothing gets done.

Result: nobody bothers to reports bugs and the product dies because initial users get an experience like this.

John,

I report them, even obscure ones. But you are correct that it takes a lot of work and patience on my part to get them fixed. Sometimes it takes years.

I am interested in the join discussion in this post and your other one. I intend to dig more deeply into your comments as I am currently having a problem with a series of joins where the left outer seems to be disabled. And if what I have is syntactically correct but still doesn't work, I promise I will open a case.

Keep us the good work, professor.

quote:

If we all have problems with this, then we all need to put in cases, this adds weight to the justification of having it fixed.

Waz,

Our institution pays 20% of the cost of the software annually for maintenance. Why wouldn't we expect product defects which have been reported and confirmed by IBI to be fixed? Why would we instead expect to engage in a lobbying effort with other customers for fixing those defects?

I'm sorry, I really resent that we have to do cartwheels with product development to get bug fixes out of the dead zone.

Here's another "unintended consequence" to consider: nobody bothers to report bugs and the product dies because seasoned customers lose confidence that the effort put forth to document, report and work through case management tech support may instead result in the languishment of "In Product Division" cases. While new features (requiring new licenses for new revenue opportunities) add to the scarcity of support resources.

And if one doesn't think that is happening, allow me to attest that our institution has lost motivation for reporting defects.

More feedback.

Dan at UNO

how about a reward for being the first to find and report a bug (except 'what is a bug' really?)
$1000 for a real good one!

I'd be a rich woman.

Guys, if I seem to be defending IBI, I am not.

Just stating the facts. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have this problem, but we are not and we have to "play the game".

quote:

nobody bothers to report bugs

It can be frustrating, but reporting bugs will help all of us in the long run, just like this forum.

Follow the process and things will improve, the more bugs found and reported, the better (hopefully) the QA process in IBI.

i vote for Waz.
QA is a really tough job, so releasing a feature like infoassist helps put a real world spin on QA.
so... it makes sense, i'm ok with it now.

How about if we have say a 90day trial period with Info Assist, then we can provide some constructive feedback

I hope we are not going to see: "Whoops! The discussion is not going the way I thought it would - better let it die..."

Brian, would you like to reply to our points?

Good question, John. It would be nice to see some response, considering this discussion is valuable customer feedback.

WF Lurker -- Guess what? You don't need a 90-day trial for usability feedback, you can test Info Assist right now in 7.6.7. We discovered that IBI is shipping a JSP with the product called "Betty.JSP" (or "Hollywood"), and it will allow you the opportunity to test-drive Info Assist, Power Painter, Graph Assistant, etc. It is accessible at

 http(s)://<yoursite>/ibi_apps/betty.jsp  

The launch page allows you to select some sample masterfiles (like CAR) from the drop-down on the launch page, but after you're in it, you can create a report using the reporting server's master files, so you can see what it looks like with your own site data. Version 7.6.7 has Info Assist included in the selection drop-down -- previous versions (at least I believe in the 7.6.x branch) have Power Painter, etc available.

Here's some usability feedback on Info Assist: there is a problem in the Filter dialog, the OK tab is positioned right next to the Reset tab, and it is way too easy to accidentally click the Reset, thus losing all your effort on the Filter.

Oh, and one BIG security problem with shipping "betty.jsp" with the WebFOCUS software: Via Info Assist, it can use the MFDs of the reporting server. Unauthenticated. And with Info Assist's Interactive Design view (using "Data From Source"), actual data from your enterprise get populated in the report painter on the browser screen. Unauthenticated. I suspect the same is true for Power Painter. And it doesn't matter if you have Technical Memo 4608 enabled ("Limiting Reporting Server Access by Non-Managed Reporting Users") -- that fix works only if you RUN a fex, it does nothing to prevent an unauthenticated user from accessing /ibi_apps/betty.jsp, loading up Info Assist, and cruising your enterprise data via the report painter. This JSP was totally under the radar for us -- got to wonder how many other JSPs are tucked in /ibi_apps that I now have to manually lock down?

Here's another request coming out of this discussion: please don't ship undocumented "tools" like Hollywood/Betty that inadventently open exposure points, even if it gives customers the opportunity to test-drive new features.

More valuable feedback,

Dan at UNO

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rigel7,

Whoops! This discussion is not going the way I thought it would. Darn the free press!

There are so many things to reply to --- and me between the proverbial rock and hard place. Against some very wise advice ... here goes.

First off (and most importantly) - I am relaying your comments to many parties - they are not going into the bit bucket.

I do want to clarify a few points:

• We are putting new features only in the odd-numbered releases. 766 only contained bug fixes, no new features. 767 has 48 new features and over 100 bug fixes. IA is bigger than all the other new features combined - by far.
  
• 768 will only contain bug fixes, no new features.
  
• We carefully choose which new features go into these x.y.z releases. Anything that makes too big an impact on production code paths is kept out of an x.y.z release.
  
• On the question of allowing a WHERE on a child in a left outer join: No product management, development, or QA resources used in IA were diverted from the outer join project. (BTW: it is an active project). Our teams need to specialize. TABLE, JOIN, and DBMS access is very far way from developing tools in the browser. I am not implying that your need is not important. Adding 18 people from the IA GUI team will not solve the outer join problem any sooner.
  
• Please, please, please report your bugs and new feature requests. If you know about the case from this forum, then open up a quick case that refers to the original. Why? Because that gives us a real life feed on what is important. Someone reports a problem and we can issue a easy work around...a suggested change goes into the large NFR list and the case is closed. When we see that 10 other customers hit the same thing it reinforces how widespread the issue is.
  

I want to thank you for the feedback on IA. I want to thank you all for feedback on IBI release policy. We really value the feedback (even when it leaves me a little black and blue). Since the bulk of this thread is about new feature release policy, I am going to attempt to change the name of this thread.

Brian, where is infoassist?
i have a client who has it, has had an ibi consultant working with it, but now can't find it.
where is it?
how do you get to it?
windows mre 767 install.
thanks

Same here... except I have never seen it in the domain options since we upgraded to 7.6.7. Is there something I need to turn on? I see RA, GA,PowerPainter like before, but no IA.

Thanks!

rob

i found it finally , but its odd
you can ONLY get to it thru dashboard
not thru mre
you click on TREE
and the domaina tree appears
then MyReports
then Custom Reports
then right click on custom reports....
and you can pick infoassist or report assist.
its pretty
it should default to the 'Query version' which does NOT extract all the data, rathar then the 'Whatever the other one is called' version, that DOES in fact yank all the data, while you're building. but ok, just click the Query box before you drag. At least it HAS that option, Guess who does NOT have it.
its pretty. i like it.
why bother to build olap masters when you can just hand this out.

quote:

not thru mre

Susannah

That's fully documented

http://documentation.informationbuilders.com/masterinde.../wf767infoassist.pdf

quote:

InfoAssist can be launched in Dashboard from the following access points:
Standard Reports
Reporting Object
My Report created from a Reporting Object
Custom Report

1. Introducing and Launching InfoAssist
Note:
InfoAssist is not accessible from the Managed Reporting Applet.

There is also personal info assist that can only be launched from a URL

This saves requests to your local machine not to the webFocus server

It took time to discover my favorite thing about Info Assist...
the end user CAN SEE the code, if they want to.
Several of us have been asking for this for ages.
ReportASsist was the tool we used to start beginners in a safe environment before we gave them DevStu.
The big drawback was that they couldn't see the code they generated.
With IA, the CAN see the code.
That's a big plus. Huge. and a great teaching tool...for those of us who actually teach future developers, rather than just click&draggers.

STill doesn't have double verbs, or the HOLD files , lets hope that shows up down the road, sooner rather than later.

The personal info assist on page 12 of the manual..that's a separate license...according to my ibi salesexec. what else is new.

Susannah, so you're saying the current implementation of InfoAssist DOES NOT include the ability to use hold files, right? Saw your previous post in the same thread, and it piqued my interest.

right
its coming, we're told now.