Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that some of the Gurus, Masters, Virtuosos and Experts are getting slightly ruder than usual on this forum?

I'm a little tired of reading posts by these experts telling people to read the manual without any other constructive advice. My preference is to provide a solution AND a link to the documentation. I don't think throwing a word out and saying "look it up in the manual" is always helpful.

If I'm the only one that feels this way, then maybe it's time for me to sign off.

Thank you.

Francis,

It all depends if the questor shows any inference that they have bothered to look or not! Providing a solution in that instance would only serve their immmediate requirement without any reason for them to bother looking themselves.

For more frequent "demanders" I tend to ignore their pleas as they have normally shown no intention of learning and improving.

Finally, they must remember that it is a free service that we are supplying and that advantage of contributors good nature should not be taken!

T

we're all overworked, tired and cranky.
i agree with both sides... we're willing to help, but tired of spoon-feeding.
And its really annoying when you find out that the people who are asking are not who you might think they are... zut alors.
-S

i couldn't say ive noticed any change in the year ive used it...

of course the other side of the coin is that the guru's, regulars, experts or whatever may find some of the ways the questions are asked are rude, i dunno?... its rare when a question doesn't get answered here- the experts are far more generous with their knowlege than other forums ive encountered.

all i know is whenever ive had to ask a forum something i made sure i was polite, explained my questions precisely, read and digested any responses, displayed a willingness to learn and followed the forum rules and no one was ever rude to me- perhaps there is something in that

quote:

Finally, they must remember that it is a free service that we are supplying and that advantage of contributors good nature should not be taken!

Francis - I totally agree with you! When I was a newbee, I was helped by the Experts/Gurus/Virtuosos - I can't thank all of them enough for their help!
I have come to a point now, when I know how to solve my own problems, and I get stuck up very infrequently as far as WebFOCUS is concerned.
My suggestion is to provide a pointer which helps in solving the problem. A link to any similar post should be the next thing.
When I see requests/questions that really 'turn me off', I prefer not to respond to those rather than being rude.

Rock on!
Syed

I have made the comment before that if you do not have anything nice to say then just dont say anything. I do not believe that anyone is paid to answer any questions. I generally do not help very much. Not because I do know what to I just want to see how others are giving there suggestions. If I find a post that has 0 replys I try to help their. Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth.

anyway please be nice.

I have learned much more from researching my own answers (reading the manual) and working out solutions through trial and error than I ever have by having someone "show me". My thoughts are that the requester can search as easily as I once he/she knows what to look for.

hi ppl ,

Before anyone starts using Webfocus tool , it is a must that they shud do some research on it. Get to know few things.

If i am asking a very silly question or making a very silly mistake , i dont mind getting scolded from the gurus and experts here..

My ultimate aim is to gain knowledge in webfocus for my future endeavours..

Anyway , the people in this forum are very helpful and great...

I learnt a lot in Webfocus..But still there are always doubts and problems ..

Frustration comes from seeing requests for help, when the solution is FOCUS 101.

If someone shows at least some evidence of attempting to find a solution, then help should be forthcoming.

Although I have almost 25 years with FOCUS, from day one I always found the answers my self, and that was with the printed manual (eek).

To hand someone the answers will not help them in the long run. They will come to rely on you for everything.

Perhaps its because I grew up in the 60's (I dont remember the 60's, so I must have been there).
The attitude was to do it your self or it won't get done.

Am I alone in this way of thinking ?. Perhaps I am a relic from an era gone by, waz by name, was by nature.

I think perhaps we should create a thread that has a full set of basic ansers to question, with appropriate examples from the Car file. A first port of call for a newbie to have a look at the simple stuff.

We can then help with the difficult and obscure.

Waz, you're certainly not alone. There are many more relics from times of old just like you.
But unlike you, I had some people to fall back on as well as the manuals.

I really don't mind helping people by answering their so-called stupid or basic questions, from the thought that that are no stupid questions, except the one that you didn't ask.

But, what frustrates me of late are two things: questions asked for some problem or other without even bothering to provide even the most basic information to try and find the cause/answer; and posts that breathe an atmosphere of 'demanding'.
The first category I sometimes try to ask for more info, the second category I mostly ignore.

The idea of a basic Q&A section might be worth investigating, although the thought jumps up: if 'they' do not take the trouble now of searching, why would 'they' do the search in the Q&A section when and if that's available?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GamP,

Just to ad my comments to the rest, I have simply taken the route of just not responding to posts if I would not like to.

In general, I think everyone is saying the same things:

1) Always try be polite in what you say no matter what and remember we are all from different places around the world with slightly different socially acceptable ways of speaking.

2) Posts that seem to imply the person wants you to do his or her work for them usually won't get direct answers (or simpathy).

3) Posts that do not have a signature including environment and version information will delay the help process.

4) If a search was not done by the user before posting they may not receive direct answers either, only links to other posts.

5) Posts that seem to indicate the person has made a concerted effort to work out the problem themselves will be given everyones attention.

6) Posts that have a question about a specific item or function will receive good responses.

7) Posts that give concise and clear descriptions of the problem will be given attention as well.

I think that SUMs it up. Or is that PRINT?

Yep that just about covers it. Sometimes I think folks just don't know what to search for...and If you can provide them the word to search...they can go educate themselves. I learned way back when...with a hardcopy manual.
Some responders do get a little frustrated..but are always willing to help if needed.
Thanks to all that do.

Maybe I should not intervene in the topic but - Waz 25 years with Focus ?!? Man you made me feel miserable with my month and a half

"The best way to learn is to teach"

However, I agree with Susannah and those who have said that "spoon-feeding" is not teaching.

I’m a database programmer, but new to WebFOCUS and I find sometimes that “Help” doesn’t always actually help very much.


Sometimes “Help” gives way too much information so it’s hard to tell what applies to what I need, and sometimes there’s not enough.

Some things are not even in “Help” because WebFOCUS incorporates several different “languages” (SQL passthroughs, Dialog Manager, etc.) and it’s hard to tell where to even look for the answer.

I read the questions and responses here as a tutorial, and some of the examples that are posted have helped me as well as whoever asked the original question.

Maybe a lot more of us who look to this forum as a tutorial are helped as well.

I want to thank all of those who help me even when I was not the one who asked the question.

Thanks for taking the time to help all of us !

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Charlz,

"Focus Made Easy"...that book is still around if you google it or amazon it.
i e-got a copy the other day for a colleague and it came from, i kid you not, a salvation army book depot!

it was great to look at, with reverence, like it was an ancient manuscript ,...even printed in COURIER 10

Susannah -

Is this the book :

Focus Made Easy: A Complete Focus Handbook for Users and Programmers [FACSIMILE] (Textbook Binding)
by Richard R. Taha (Author)

Does your antiquity have an ISBN ?

I'd like to see WF's 'roots' !

Thanks

Francis is right!
Sometimes our answers appear to be a bit rude, but they are not supposed to be rude.
It's always a matter of "how does the answer sound" and with written text there is no sound.

The message however should be something like

"think about what you want to know, be a bit polite, it is a free learning site and your first steps should be done by yourself....Read the manuals, try to make an example with the CAR tables, show that you have tried to fiend the answer yourself."

We all seem to like (web)focus and want to spread that message to the newbies.

It would also be nice if the one who askes something takes at least the time to come back on the forum and tells us that his/here problem is solved with or without our help.

Charlz
yep it has an ISBN, but its in roman numerals...

I agree with FrankDutch regarding the rudeness. I have been using FOCUS for quite some time now, I personally remember the introduction of "PC FOCUS"... I've been a member of the forum for a while as well. However, I have only recently become active on the forum. Some of that was due to rudeness. I could provide examples, as could everyone. But I won't. The bottom line: We are all in this together and nobody is as smart as all of us together... So, as I said in a recent post "Be nice now [name]"